Interviews

‘Not 4 MPs, show me 4 lakh jobs’

In the time of the RSS–BJP, a Dalit must be prepared for daily harassment and humiliation, no matter if you are the Chief Justice of India or an IPS officer, says Prof. Ratan Lal

Prof. Ratan Lal teaches at DU’s Hindu College—and speaks from personal experience of caste discrimination
Prof. Ratan Lal teaches at DU’s Hindu College—and speaks from personal experience of caste discrimination 

In the time of the RSS–BJP, a Dalit must be prepared for daily harassment and humiliation, no matter if you are the Chief Justice of India or an IPS officer, says Prof. Ratan Lal, who teaches history at Delhi University’s Hindu College.

He speaks from personal experience of systemic discrimination, which has also delayed his promotion, but this outspoken, feisty public intellectual is not one to take oppression lying down.

“We mustn’t capitulate. We must resist the onslaught. Taking your life is not the answer,” he says, referring to the recent suicide by Y. Puran Kumar, a 52-year-old IPS officer, who left behind a suicide note alleging “blatant caste-based discrimination, targeted mental harassment, public humiliation and atrocities”.

Born in Muzaffarpur, Bihar, Prof. Ratan Lal is also an activist and fund-raiser for students from marginalised communities and edits a YouTube channel called Ambedkarnama.

Excerpts from a conversation with Nandlal Sharma for the National Herald:

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Three recent incidents come to mind—a shoe was thrown at the CJI inside the Supreme Court, a Dalit IPS officer in Haryana shot himself, a mob lynched a Dalit youth in UP’s Raebareli. How do you see these incidents?

What else do you expect from the RSS and the BJP?

The attack on the CJI is an attack on the State, on the Constitution and on the Republic. By praising the CJI for remaining calm, the prime minister is saying he acted wisely. He is, in effect, reminding Dalits of their place in society.

Had he any concern for the rule of law, he would’ve made sure that action was taken against the advocate who hurled the shoe in the name of defending ‘Sanatan Dharma’.

Not even an FIR was filed, nor action taken against people who made threatening comments and posted offensive memes on social media on the CJI’s caste identity.

Babasaheb Ambedkar had resigned from the cabinet over differences with Nehru. Did Ramdas Athawale [social justice minister in the Union government] resign over the insult to the CJI? Did Jitan Ram Manjhi or Chirag Paswan condemn it?

Through reservations, recruitment drives and scholarships for backward communities, previous Congress governments took affirmative action for the uplift of these people. Our prime minister flaunts his OBC identity, the BJP lists OBC ministers in the Union cabinet, but what have they done for the OBCs?

What the upper castes, the Brahmins [at the very top of the social pecking order] do not get is that they don’t stand to gain either from this regime, that the RSS–BJP are an existential threat to the Constitution and all its guarantees.

A few Brahmins may earn well, but go check how many Brahmins are working as security guards in the NCR for salaries as low as Rs 15,000–20,000 or less. What has Modi done except ensuring that Indians work for the Adani Group at Rs 30,000 a month?

Don’t show me four OBC ministers, show me 4 lakh secure jobs for the people.

How do you see the recent public meeting in Lucknow of BSP chief Mayawati where she praised the BJP government in Uttar Pradesh, criticised the Congress and the Samajwadi Party and appealed for support in the Bihar election…

She’ll do only as well as the RSS–BJP let her. She has no ideological problem with their agenda. She has already been in the government with the BJP in Uttar Pradesh a couple of times.

Didn’t the BSP coin slogans like ‘Bramha, Vishnu, Mahesh hai/ Haathi nahin, Ganesh hai’ and ‘Brahman shankh bajayega/ Haathi chalta jayega’? No wonder the BSP is now confined to Uttar Pradesh and its vote share has shrunk to 9 per cent from 22–23 per cent back in the day.

Dalits have good reason to be disappointed with Mayawati. Has she piloted a single national initiative to improve their lot, forget about protesting against atrocities? Nehru, Indira Gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi got them scholarships, free education, job reservations, pension, relief from moneylenders… Has she ever bothered to thank them for this?

Nitish Kumar is hailed as ‘Vikas Purush’ in Bihar. How beholden should Dalits in the state be to him?

How many PSUs has Nitish Kumar set up in the state? How many colleges and universities? This is where jobs are generated. What about industry? There used to be 37 sugar mills in Bihar and not one is functional anymore despite nearly 20 years of the NDA government in the state. There was the paper mill in Darbhanga, the railway yard in Chhapra… Where are they?

Lalu Prasad too set up universities and the railway yard, among other initiatives.

[Now] thanks to the NDA, education lies in ruins in Bihar. There was a time when every district had a zila school that was considered the best, where children of both poor and well-off folk, the DM/SP’s kids too, would study. Patna Science College, Patna College and L.S. College Muzaffarpur were ranked among the best — it was only when students failed to get admission in these that they would travel to Delhi to study.

What is the situation today? Do children of politicians and bureaucrats go to government schools and do they get themselves treated in government hospitals? What has happened to the scholarships and fellowships?

Please do not tell me how many Dalit ministers, MLAs and politicians you have promoted. That cannot be a paradigm of development.

Was the situation any better earlier?

You know, even in the days of the Congress, or when the UPA was in power, we’d stage protests and hold agitations against the government. But we were never hounded back then.

In universities, people with RSS affinities or affiliations were not treated like pariahs, if they met other criteria. They shared space with people from socialist, leftist backgrounds as well as people who were close to the Congress. Their political leanings did not get in the way of promotions or in matters such as getting leave or being allowed to go on sabbatical for research or to write a book.

But nowadays you have to fall at the feet of the RSS–BJP to get your dues.

Earlier, one could get admission to a medical or engineering college and the fees were a few thousand rupees a year. Now you need crores to even get in. Who has crores?

The Constitution promises equal opportunities — jobs, education, pension… the BJP has taken them all away. Education has become prohibitively expensive and jobs are getting fewer and fewer.

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